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>> steve: super bowl, here we come. "fox & friends" on its way to new orleans for the super bowl show down. >> brian: i'll be there friday, saturday, and sunday, we'll have michael vick, cam newton, joe thighsman, arian foster and more. >> steve: what a show! >> brian: i hope so. news alert. a tense hostage standoff going on 14 plus hours. we have a live look at midland city alabama. this is the southern part of the state where police say a man snatched a child off the school bus after shooting and killing the driver of that bus. swat teams and fbi officers a surrounding a underbrowned bunker where the man is holding a 6-year-old boy since yesterday afternoon. what a gripping story.

i'm bill hemmer. well to "america's newsroom". martha: what a tale unraveling here. good morning to you. gunman stormed on the bus, demanded a child, any child on that us about. he want ad child. he grabbed one and opened fire. all of this as other kids were looking on in horror. >> we were dropping some kids off and then a man that lived next door to them got on the bus and asked our bus driver if he wanted something and gave him a note. i don't know what happened after that. he started telling him need ad kid because something about the law coming after him. he shot the bus driver and, the driver's foot was on the gas and we went backwards and everybody started screaming. then the bus driver was still there, we got off the bus and went to the neighbor's house. bill: she is a grave little girl. there is lot we don't know. we know the police were in contact with the suspect. no word on his if any with

the child he is holding or with the bus driver who is dead. elizabeth prann, live at the scene, midland city, what do we know, elizabeth? good morning. >> reporter: like you said we know very, very little. the sheriff's office is not speaking with the media. it is a very sensitive situation. it is ongoing. so much so we're seeing swat teams go up and down this dirt road behind me. just blocks away where the suspect is holed up in a homemade bunker with that 6-year-old boy who he took from that school bus yesterday. we know police are communicating with him through a pvc site into that homemade bunker. they have been in that bunker since yesterday afternoon when police say the man boarded a school bus and was armed and demanded one child. when the driver was refused he was shot several times and died later. we have police scanner sound. take a listen. >> there are still kids on the bus. >> 10-4. children, believe children and child is on the line

with us and advising that the bus driver has been shot. >> reporter: now we do know that suspect was due to be in court today on a menacing charge with threatening or harrassment charge. we also no know the immediate area around the homes behind us have been evacuated and there is no school today for any schools in the local area. bill: what about the relationship, elizabeth, between the suspect and the child? what do we know about that, if anything? >> reporter: we know very, very little. we have in proof that the suspect was in any type of relationship this child. no evidence of that. we had several requests into the sheriff's office. we haven't heard back. i can assure you, as soon as we hear from him that will be one of our first questions. bill: that is ongoing. you're at midland city, alabama, southern part of the state. the next big city is dothan, alabama, before you hit florida. elizabeth prann on the scene. what you get developments we'll get back there.

thank you. martha: we'll stay on top of that in "america's newsroom." we want to get to this, your 401(k) is likely getting falter over the last several weeks. the dow is flirting with the 14,000 mark. the first time it has seen that in years. it has been up seven of the last trading days. yesterday closing at 13, 954. a lot first time we've seen that since 2007. a lot of water under the bridge. this is the best start to the year since 1989. don't break out the bubbly just yet. we got word the economy shrunk for the first time in 3 1/2 years. stuart varney will make sense of all this. he is anchor of "varney & company" on the fox business network. stuart, what do you make of that. >> it is not always true that economic performance is directly mirrored on the stock market. in fact you have a classic example today. let me start with the very dismal news on the economy. in the last three months of

last year, our economy shrunk, contracted at annualized rate of .1%. back then we were staring tax increases in the face. there was the fiscal cliff coming right at us. consumer sentiment was in a tailspin. and weak holiday sales. add it all up, and you have got a contraction of the economy at the end of last year. okay? you've got a contraction. right now, just a few short weeks later, what you've got is a near-record high for the stock market. the dow is closing in on an all-time high. that is because the housing market is recovering. that is still true, despite the slippage in the economy. housing is recovering. most important, ben bernanke, martha, is printing up a storm of money and a lot of it is going right into the stock market. therefore, the market rallies, even though the economy contracts. martha: that would be an argument for sort of a false fluffy high in the stock market, i would imagine, right?

>> i will not predict the stock market now, tomorrow or into the future but i will tell you that the market despite that terrible economic news will open only maybe 15 points lower for the dow industrials this morning. martha: you think back, we were talking about the fact that gdp growth was under 2% and that was a real measly amount of growth in economy. now we're talking about it basically flat, zero. the u.s. economy stagnant. >> yes. we're returning to the pattern. basically we're bumping along the bottom, roughly 2% growth for year after year after year. it is just not good enough. it is nothing like the recovery we should have had but that's where we are. martha: yeah, we hope you're wrong, stuart. >> thank you. martha: i think you hope you're wrong but the numbers seem to point in your direction, sir. thank you very much. stuart varney, have to get growth going. that is a big headline right now. meanwhile the government racking up more losses from the 2008 bank bailout. still on this now. a new report blaming it

largely on ally financial the former financial arm of general motors which still owes 14.6 billion of the more than $17 billion it borrowed. taxpayers could expect to lose about five 1/2 billion on that deal alone. the report also criticizing the treasury department for failing to get its money out of the company. taxpayers still own 74% of that. martha: as our national debt ticks up by the second, closing in on $16.5 trillion, there is the number at the moment there, folks. one senator is criticizing president obama for this. he says he hasn't done much to bring that number down. listen. >> when it comes to reducing the debt as we would say out in the west the president has been all hat and no cowboy. in other words he has been all talk and no action. what we've seen over the past four years as trillion dollar deficits every single year. the debt has ballooned by 50% and so president's record and his rhetoric just don't match up.

martha: senator thune saying they want to have a debate on getting the debt under control and reducing spending. he is also a name that has been tossed around as a possible presidential candidate many times over the years. bill: meantime there is weather all across the country getting major attention. watch this storm throughout the day. a massive storm system slamming the central and southern u.s. of the. reports of tornados and thunderstorms whipping across five states overnight. the temperature swing is just extraordinary. heavy damage in states like mississippi and alabama where there were thousands without power today. large chunks of hail and ferocious winds causing a lot of problems. anna kooiman has more from our newsroom watching all of this. what is going on outside? >> reporter: good morning to everybody at home. we are expecting very strong winds here in the northeast later today and conditions are changing quickly and severe weather threats are shifting east today after a major storm system has already torn through the nation's midsection and much of the south. the national weather service saying the threat of

tornados is highest in northeast texas, northern louisiana, northwest mississippi, southeast missouri and arkansas. folks in tennessee experiencing widespread flooding, saturating the ground and causing trees and power lines to topple. at least one death confirmed by police there. the one person in arkansas struck by lighting -- lightning according to reports. the noaa reports tornado damage in arkansas, missouri, mississippi and indiana. this as cold and warm weather systems are colliding in mississippi. people are told to brace for severe thunderstorms, high winds and the possibility of tornados. bill: so, anna, what a difference from the arctic blast that so many experienced only a few days ago. windchills were below zero. >> reporter: it was nuts here in manhattan. these tornado warnings are more typical in april, may and june. last week, snow and black ice plagued much of the

midwest and northeast. subzero temperatures you're talking about. bone-chilling windchills had residents bundling up. mild temps as some even broke out the flip-flops, bill. weather technology has become more sophisticated in past years enabling more of a warning period for severe weather. the united states is experiencing the longest run between deaths caused by tornados since record began. there was 221 days since there was a tornado-induced fatality. bill: thank you, anna kooiman. that will be a big story throughout the day. martha. martha: we're just getting started this morning. a leading senator says washington does not have a spending problem. really? is she right about that? bill: here is one you don't see every day, how a surface-to-air missile launcher ended up at a gun buyback event. >> we see that all the time. we'll go back to midland city, alabama. there is a look at the

s.w.a.t. team on the scene. what a terrifying day it is for this town. a 6-year-old boy is being held hostage by a suspected gunman. he was chosen randomly off of a bus. we'll try to get more answers about this from police on the scene. we'll bring that back to you in just a few minutes. we'll be right back.

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martha: a major victory against al qaeda fighters in northern africa. once again, we see the french forces in the lead in a situation in africa. they have now said they're in control of a key airport in mali. commanders say it is part of an operation against militants still on going there. this week french and mali forces regained control of several major cities across the northern part of that country. so perhaps a bit of progress. we'll see. bill: drones in the desert. back to the battle in washington now over spending. louisiana democratic senator mary landrieu making a bit of a headline on the floor of the senate when she suggested this yesterday.

>> i am not going to keep cutting the discretionary budget, which by the way is not out of control despite what you hear on fox news. it's mandatory spending that is rising rapidly because the greatest generation that fav us the greatest nation the greatest nation that the world ever heard base they're dying and they need hospice care. bill: numbers seem to suggest she is right on some of that but not all of it. stephen hayes, "weekly standard" and good morning to you. >> good morning, bill. bill: leave fox news out of this. talk about numbers and washington is doing. pick up the point about discretionary spending. is she right on that pint or not. >> no, i don't think she is right on that point. there is plenty of discretionary spending to cut. house republicans looking to replace the sequester found $300 billion in mostly discretionary spending that could be cut by the federal government.

there is plenty of discretionary spending to be cut. if you look back at 2008 the discretionary spending levels then versus now you're talking about a difference more than $200 billion. so that may not be a big deal to her. it may not be a big deal to people in washington but i can tell you it is a big deal to taxpayers. bill: i agree with that too. you look at the zeros in washington and your mind goes, you don't see it anymore. we'll show viewers right now from 2,000, the year 2,000. nine zeros on the screen. that's billions now. that is the $614 billion in discretionary spending. real dollar numbers now, 12 years later in 2012, 1.3 trillion. that's double, steve. and that makes the point about her statement. >> right. exactly. i think what democrats would say, i think what people who defend federal spending would say, well, as a percentage of the united states gross domestic product it wasn't as much of a change. it was actually quite similar over that same time period but you can't look at

that amount of spending, a doubling of the amount of discretionary spending over that time frame and say that it's not an increase and not a significant increase. bill: away from discretionary spending to mandatory spending which is entitlements, medicare, medicaid, social security. that is about 60% of the budget. >> right. bill: where is she on reforming those issues? >> well, i think she is absolutely right to identify that as a problem. to a certain extent, it is a welcome development here. democrats talk about the seriousness of the rapid escalation of mandatory spending programs. i mean that is, those are the drivers of the debt. medicare, medicaids social security. in particular medicare. anytime you have anybody in washington talk about that in a serious way and acknowledge that it's going to be driving us to the brink of insolvency that is positive development but i don't know that mary landrieu has any significant medicare reform proposals or has done much work on reforming entitlements more broadly. if she were to step forward

and be a leader on the democratic side in the senate, get them to include those kind of changes in the democratic budget we now expect, as republican haves done each of the past two years, that would be a very welcome development. bill: you could argue in washington republicans and democrats are equal to blame here. go back 12 years, talk about the wars that were fought, stimulus package, routine agency spending, stimulus was $800 billion and still rising today. >> right. bill: what she said if they want to go ahead and cut that, go ahead. i'm going to be a little more gentle. >> right. gentle in her formulation --. bill: sounds like throwing granny over the cliff, doesn't it? >> gentle in her formulation is the important word. what exactly does that mean? does that mean senate democrats and mary landrieu are going to do nothing? or will they come up with other kinds of reforms that will insure the solvency of these programs going forward. i would say, i agree with your first point, bill. it is true democrats and republicans are to blame. i would say over the past couple years when you look

at increase in discretionary spending we saw with the president and the stimulus of nearly a trillion dollars and then you look at the kinds of reforms that were proposed in the house republican budgets where they got very serious reforming entitlements for the long term and opposed by democrats we've seen a shift in the past four years where republicans have taken these long-term problems, problems seriously and democrats haven't even passed a budget as we talked about before. bill: pushing the boulder up the hill. steve, thank you. >> thanks bill. bill: the gdp numbers will be a big headline in washington too. .1%, it is paltry. talk to you later, steve. 19 past. martha. martha: we're in the middle of a breaking news situation in dale county county, alabama. a frightening tale is unfolding a 6-year-old boy is being held in a bunker by a man who already shot the bus driver on this loyal boy's bus. it is a frighting,

frightening scene. we'll take you to one of the spokespeople for the sheriff's office there when we come back. bill: think about the 6-year-old boy and what he is going through. women in key combat positions, maybe not so fast after all. we'll explain.

martha: we want to take you back to this breaking news situation right now that is unfolding in midland city, alabama, where a child was taken off a bus by a man with a gun who shot their bus driver. we heard this whole tale as it was told by one of the little girls who was on the bus. we want to listen to this brand new audio we have of the police scanner while this unfolded. listen to this. >> central 26-4. therefore be advise ad child has been removed from the bus.

>> 10-4. suspect has removed a child from the bus. >> that's a 10-4. advising that a child has been taken from the bus trying to get --. martha: boy, unbelievable. sergeant rachel david is the spokeswoman for the dote than police department and joins us now -- dothan. sergeant, thank you for being with us. i know you have a very active situation on your hand right now. what is the latest in all of this? >> thank you for having us. well, as you know we did respond to a call for service. the call came in yesterday at 3:36 p.m. and early reports were of a incident involving a school bus. now early arrival authorities did confirm there was one fatality and limited information was given beyond that at that time. certainly we have multiple agencies on scene that are working in a joint effort to bring this situation to a quick resolution. we have now evacuated the immediate area around the

incident where the command post is located. additionally, we have worked very hard to keep the information flowing, but again, during an investigation our number one priority is the safety of the public. we have just released that the confirmed victim was the school bus driver. we extend our deepest sympathies to that family. we have some identified as victim as 66-year-old, charles allen polled land, jr.. he was employed by the board of education in 2009 and was acting in his duties yesterday when fatally shot. unfortunately a tragic situation. one we're still working to resolve. martha: sergeant, your heart breaks for that man's family. as you say, 66 years old. been driving that bus for about four years. the story that one of the little girls told was that this man got on the bus and said to the bus driver, something to the effect, i need a child. and he said, no.

and then he was shot, so i mean he truly is hero. he was trying to protect the children on his bus. he said absolutely not or whatever his response was. he said no, according to that eyewitness on the bus. now, let's go back to the scene that we're watching here live. we can see the swat teams. it was reported earlier that there is some sort of pipe that goes down into this underground bunker through which the police are talking to this man who is holding this 6-year-old child? >> we have not released any specifics about the layout of the area that we are working in. certainly we do have safety considerations and tactical considerations and because we are so early into the investigation, that is an ongoing incident we do have to limit the information that we are giving out. but again, just ask everyone to keep this situation in their thoughts. martha: is there, a medical condition that this child suffers from? there were also reports that he was, that the man did concede to allow this child

to be given medicine? >> the only thing we confirmed about the involvement of the child that there is a child involved in the situation. we have not given any information about the child in any specifics. martha: i completely understand. and you understand me asking i'm sure. i want to ask you one more thing. what is your, does this man have any criminal record? what do you know about this sus speck? >> we're working very hard to develop all information about the suspect. we have not released his identity at this time. but still as law enforcement officials we have information that will be helpful in knowing who we are dealing with at this time. martha: good luck to you guys. this is a very, very tense situation. sergeant rachel david, we thank you very much for being with us today. best of luck. >> thank you. bill: this story broke last night 6:00 or 7:00 in the evening. first you get the reports, what is going on here? one of the stories gets worse by the headline and worse by the update.

that is clearly disturbed man and we hope for the best for this 6-year-old boy. in a moment here, what if your governor wanted to give your money back in taxes? he said the state already has enough of it. a close look at a surprising proposal in a moment. martha: nick wallenda does it again. looks like he is going for a walk in the park in his blue jeans. no tether, waving to the crowd, blowing kisses, 200 feet above the road in florida there. we'll talk to him. what do you do? what do you put into your head to allow yourself to get up there. we'll be right back. >> it is uncomfortable, of course. all about the training. that i did my entire life and training for niagra falls of course pays off. [ whistle blows ]

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martha: so all sides clamor for the lead on immigration reform right now, president obama laid down his marker on this issue in las vegas yesterday. take a look. >> we all agree that these men and women should have to earn their way to citizenship. but for comprehensive immigration reform to work, it must be clear from the outset that there is a pathway to citizenship. [applause] martha: you heard the big applause there but the blueprint released by these eight senators would not let illegal i am hi grants immigrants seek

citizenship until border security is increased in a comprehensive way. arizona senator jeff flake is in the group and he joins me now. good morning. >> thank for having me on. martha: what is your reaction saying not needing to have border security completely shored up before you have a path to citizenship? >> no you have to have a pathway it citizenship is important to the president, the border protection especially important to us in arizona. we've got to have it. martha: marco rubio agrees with you. he doesn't want to get into a bidding war on this. this group of bipartisan senators agreed on this platform, for this deal. and, basically that, you know, they want the president to stay out of it. how do you think that is going to go? >> well, i always believe the president didn't put down an ultimatum unless there is a direct path to citizenship without border security he won't sign the legislation. there was a big omission in

the president's proposal. there is no temporary worker plan. we've got to have that. the president just hasn't been able to cross the unions i guess on that one. but this is a bipartisan plan here an capitol hill. and i hope that the president allows this legislation to go forward. >> there is a question out there this morning about politically whether the president thinks that he benefits more from getting a deal done here and having immigration be, you know, a success story for him and for republicans and sort of sharing that success story, or, you know, he wants 70 plus percent of the vote with hispanics? does he want to continue to sort of put, paint republicans into a corner with that group of the voting public? >> you know, i truly don't know what he wants in the end but all i know this is the right thing to do. we're going to do it on a bipartisan basis in congress. i hope the president will support it when it gets to his desk. but as far as you know, motives that the president has, just don't know.

martha: you know, one more, impression on that on a little bit more. there is feeling fiscal deal, a big fiscal agreement, in terms of the a victory on the president's ledger may not be coming. that gun control we're going to get to in a second may also not be coming this victory is something that both sides think they can get done. boy, doesn't congress just as well as the president need to have sort of an agreement on something in their pocket this time around? >> well, i hope so. although the fiscal issues are far, far bigger and, that's where we really have to have some progress but this is a big one as well and the president did tell his voters four years ago that in his first term he would do immigration reform. it wasn't done. and so there is i think, some motivation to get something done. i just don't know if he will agree to the legislation, the bipartisan deal we're puttinging together. martha: one more quick one on immigration. what satisfies you in terms of border security?

how do you know that's where you want it to be before you can start the to citizenship? >> that's a great question. in arizona we have two sectors on the border, the yuma sector and the tucson sector. the yuma sector is 88 miles of border and we do have what is termed operational control. everyone agrees that is what it is. we just need that in the tucson sector and then we'll be happy to move ahead and let people adjust their status. we do know what it looks like. it has a definition and that's what we need to do. martha: interesting. all right. i want to move onto the hearing that is going to happen this morning in the senate. no doubt there will be some fireworks for lack of a better term there this morning. you know, you're going to have wayne lapierre of the nra, also mark kelly the famous astronaut. we also hear, gabby giffords, his wife, the former congresswoman may also make a statement. what do you want to hear in there today? >> well i think we've all believed for a long time there is, there is something

that can be done, particularly in the area of background checks. we want to make sure that the criminals don't have access to guns. and those who are not, in a mental state, to have guns, they shouldn't have them. there are things that we can do there to broaden background checks that currently happen. so i hope that that's where we can make some progress the. martha: you don't hear that much about the mental equation here. who is really pushing for that out there and making their their priority in this discussion? >> well, there have been talks about that. it's a difficult, difficult, nut to crack. it really is. but, i got to make some progress there. i think that is where, like i say, if you want to really impact gun violence, that's where you can make a difference. martha: all right. senator flake, thank you. you have a busy day ahead. we appreciate you being with us, sir. thank you very much. >> appreciate it. bill: thanks, martha. there is a new proposal to take surplus tax money to give it back to the people who paid it. novel.

governor rick perry is proposing a change to the state constitution in texas to return the excess money that it collects. fox business network's charles payne is moving to dallas. breaking news. novel idea. can get it done? >> i think he can get it done. first of all, i love the idea. i think it is fantastic. i don't know how, how they're sitting in terms of money and obligations. not sure if he should give it all back, $1.8 billion. not only is the cash great, bill, the goodwill, the idea somehow people who pay taxes are not demonized? that is novel in this political environment. bill: education will fight that. they will say, give it towards schools. >> right. bill: i would say when i heard the story, sarah palin had a lay on the books in alaska that returned oil receipts to taxpayers in that state? >> that is natural resource under the ground. saying all alaskans should enjoy that. this is a little different. what texas is saying we've got an amazing economic boom.

this is what rick perry is saying. this is your money. this is a novel part of it. when we hear most politicians talk about taxes, it is almost as if we work and their money. whatever we get in our check is, hey,. bill: take, take. if he gets this and is successful they will crown the guy thing. there is another big topic i want to roll in here. we ask viewers questions all the time. gdp number was paltry that came out earlier. because you asked, bya, we get this question right now. explain the rise in the stock market versus lowering expectations and consumer sentiment and debt. you've got a dow bumping up against 14,000. >> all-time high. bill: yet these guys are not feeling any better about their own situation. why is that? >> because a long time ago we had to separate the idea that the stock market is direct correlation of the u.s. economy. it is not. one of the reasons i've been overly bullish for a long time, bill. four things. first of all the global economy. i'm not talking about europe. have you heard of azerbaijan.

bill: i have. >> they opened four seasons and. have you seen the skyline in panama city? bill: i have not. >> it will blow you away. the world is on fire. the planet has never been this prosperous before. caterpillar gets 70% of the their revenue outside of america. apple gets 66% of the their revenue outside of america. avery dennison gets 76% of their revenue outside of america. bill: everyone else is booming and we're bumping along. there is reason why this viewer does. >> absolutely. america is just bumping along. we're in a very dangerous place right now. if you look at europe this morning, one of the biggest power companies in italy, their stock is down 40%. italy is in trouble. spain's economy dropped even more. germany had the lowest beer consumption last year in history. bill: oh. >> europe is in trouble. i can understand why people don't understand the correlation because in fact it is not the way it used to be. a lot of what we're seeing in the market, global economy, global peace, low valuations.

admit it, fed money printing doesn't hurt it. bill: the payroll tax is playing with the heads of a lot of people. >> their heads and their wallets, that too. catch you on fbn. hemmer@foxnews.com is the e-mail. on twitter @billhemmer. fire away for chuck payne because you asked. martha? martha: let's talk a little bit what's coming up this morning. we have an american citizen who is sentenced to eight years in one of iran's most brutal prisons. why? because he is a christian. what is it like? there are people who do not survive evin prison. we'll speak to somebody who spent more than three years there about how they did just that. bill: also the military lifting a ban on women in combat. why the country's top marine says, some of those jobs will be off limits.

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women in combat. marine commandant general james amos. saying quote, if the numbers are so small regarding qualification, there may very well job fields that remain closed. those will be few and far between. the general went on to say you have only one or two female servicemembers in the unit that would make it difficult for the women to assimilate and succeed. what about all this? general jack keane is fox news military analyst, former army vice chief of staff. you were on the other day with us making an argument with kt mcfarland that you were against this idea in the first place. this man apparently agrees with you. what do you think of his statement? >> well, i sort of agree with him. he is on active duty. let's put it that way. i think he is absolutely spot on. i admire making public statements. the pressure in the pentagon is absolutely to bring women into our direct combat units and to find ways to make it happen and make sure the

standards are, are going to compliment that, et cetera, et cetera. listen, let's make this very clear because there is misunderstanding. our woman have been in harm's way. they have been attacked, ambushed, their vehicles have been blown up. they have been in firefights and they performed very well. what general amos is talking about and what i have been talking about is direct ground combat, which is offensive attack to close with the enemy under fire and to do it day in, and day out. that is the essentially the work of infantry organizations. the brits conducted studies on this for 18 months and found that the women's bodies break down, the injury rates were sky-high and they rejected it. they looked at it again just recently two years ago and they came to the same conclusion general amos had is that, our numbers are going to be so few, they said, .01% of women could possibly ever make it through this, that we're not going to have successful

group cohesion in those units. therefore, and this is the key point, bill, the units will be less combat effective. and in the military, combat effectiveness trumps individual rights, it trumps fairness and in this case it has to trump equal opportunity. bill: on that point he says we can't afford to lower standards. that is what he said in this interview. but there are tests now that would be set up, there's a 30-week course i'm certain is physically grueling. if you don't pass that you can't move onto the next step. you haven't heard a lot of opposition from that since this announcement was made. also on a tank crew, you have to be able to lift a tank round, just one example here, which weighs more than 40 pound and load it into the main gun. now, have you seen testing like this carried out among men and women? if so, what is the result of such a test? >> well, we haven't done that obviously because of,

we never attempted to integrate women into tank units or artillery units n my own mind, if they can meet those physical requirements in tank units and artillery units which is essentially moving heavy ammunition, then so be it. bill: you're okay with that? >> i'm okay with that. i'm okay with pilots. i'm okay with women on ships. they have done remarkable in all of this stuff. i'm talking about a narrow field which requires a very high group cohesion and very demanding physical standards. and you need everybody, everybody physically healthy being able to support that team under fire. bill: it seems like you got the announcement and then got the headlines and now we're starting to see the news on this, in, amos gets his way it will not go the way it was talked about a week ago, right? >> yee, here's the other concern, bill is, we have lowered standards before to

accommodate the a simulation of women into our organizations. assimilation. we did it in basic training. we did it in officer training. we did it in our service academies because at the time we were saying to ourselves and i think quite honestly, looking the women's body is different. physicality issue is different. bill: i understand the point you're making. we'll continue this. maybe we'll even bring back kt mcfarland and tee you both up again with this new development from general amos. thank you, sir. >> thank you, bill. bill: general jack keane out of washington. thank you. martha: daredevil nick wall lend did gives a whole new meaning to the highway. what is he planning next? we'll talk to him live. >> i'm sure he is very, i'm sure he is very, very proud of me. yeah. >> that one just went. >> i'm sure he is proud of me. and what i'm doing in his hometown. this is his hometown. argue with nutrition you can see. great grains.

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bill: live to the hill. this gun hearing will get underway in about eight minutes time. we're told it is one of the most attended hearings that many reporters in washington can remember. in part because the astronaut mark kelly is there and his wife gabby gifford will appear as well. she was a surprise add to the list about two hours ago. she fired off this tweet a moment ago. heading to the senate for a hearing on gun violence. thanks to senator leahy and chuck grassley, the other senator, for starting this conversation. we'll track the headlines out of that smart hearing here on "america's newsroom". martha: for something completely different for you. he calls himself, the king of the wire. this is why daredevil nick wallenda, walking the high wire 200 feet above the highway in sarasota, florida, untethered yesterday.

we watched all of this as it unfolded. nick wallenda joins me as well. a hop, skip and a jump at the end. from sarasota, home of the flying wallendas. glad it went well for you. >> so am i. martha: how was it up there? >> you know what? there was a bit more wind than i was hoping for. i'm being told gusts up to 35 miles an hour. martha: wow. >> and a steady wind around 25 to 30 miles an hour. so a little more than i had hoped for but, all is well that ends well. here i am talking to you this morning. martha: yeah. you know i guess the biggest question i have watch you do this, how do you maintain the focus? and what do you do inside your head? what is your practice when you feel like you're losing that focus? >> you know, this is something that i've done my entire life. i started walking the wire at the age of two. i'm 34 now. for 32 years i've been walking a wire. so something that becomes very natural to me. it actually becomes dangerous at times because you can become so complacent

that it is second nature. that is when something will come up to bite you. whether a gust of wind or a cable moving underneath your feet so. those are the things that help me keep my focus are when those things happen, a gust of wind or something. it is kind of a wake-up call, saying hey, you're up on a wire and you need to be careful. martha: what is the scariest moment you've had? >> i would say the scariest moment i had when i was breaking a world record in newark, new jersey, on a bicycle on a wire. the record was for distance. it was 235 feet across. there was a large dip in the middle of the wire. on the way uphill the back wheel started to spin. i sort of, didn't so much lose balance and didn't know what i would do in order to get in. ended up backing to get momentum to make it all the way. that was probably the scariest moment in my career. martha: sarasota obviously has a lot of meaning for , doesn't it? >> it does. this where i was born and raised. this is about the community. i'm featured in a show here in town called circus sarasota through february 15th. that was somewhat of the

purpose. this is about a the city. this is circus community. this is circus city. this is about giving back to a community so supportive of me throughout my entire career. martha: you talked about your grandfather. you were interviewed the whole way across which astounds me because i would think you have to concentrating so hard you couldn't chitchat and walking across in your blue jeans you talked a little bit about your grandfather who was killed walking a tightrope, curt wall leaned today. >> in 1978 he was walking between two buildings in san juan, puerto rico, the cable was rigged improperly. he sat down on the wire and lost his balance and eventually fell to the ground and lost his life. something me and my mom recreated in 2011 which was a huge honor. everything i do is to pay tribute to my ancestors. as i was up there saying i think he would be proud of me to do this in his hometown, he would probably be running circles around me. i guaranty you he would have stood on his head halfway across. kudos to him for the amazing performer he was. martha: thank you, nik.

it is a fantastic family business and you have a light of proud and rightly so. good luck to you. bill: stay safe. cool guy too. showdown over guns in america. minutes away from a senate hearing. we'll hear two strikingly different opinions on the gun debate in america. we'll take you there live. moments away. ♪ [ male announcer ] some day, your life will flash before your eyes. make it worth watcng. introducing the 2013 lexus ls. an entirely new pursuit.

martha: all right. we've got a fox news alert right now. it's a breaking news situation. there is a child's life that is in danger right now because he is being held hostage by a crazed gunman in an underground bunker in alabama. welcome back, everybody. i'm martha maccallum in "america's newsroom". bill: i'm bill hemmer. good morning again as we look there live, midland city, alabama, the southern part of the state. here is what we know at the moment. a man stormed a school bus late yesterday. shot and killed the driver. kidnapped a 6-year-old boy. here is the just released police scanner from yesterday as the police try

to locate the children on board that bus. >> most of the kids, not all the kids, are accounted for. they believe other kids ran to a house. that was being built. we don't have all the kids accounted for. >> 10-4. only thing we know one child is hostage with one suspect. >> they're advising there is more than. but all the kids are not accounted for. >> 10-4. martha: this is panicked moments where they're trying to figure out where all the children are. all of this comes too soon after the newtown situation. so elizabeth prann is live on the scene for news midland with some new information. good morning, elizabeth. >> reporter: good morning. we're getting small details out. what we do know is the name of that bus driver. 66-year-old charles albert pullin, jr., we was killed as we know after being shot several times by that suspected gunman. he later died at the hospital of. he has been with the school district since 2009 but that is really the most recent information that is being released by the sheriff's

department. we know they're being very tight-lipped. it is very tight and sensitive. we're not far from the scene. that dirt rode over my shoulder, every once in a while we'll see swat teams come back and forth. that is where we are told the suspected gunman is holed up in a homemade bunker he made behind his home. we also know that he does have a 6-year-old hostage with him. although we know very few details about the young boy. we know when the driver refused to let him in he was shot several times. we have sound from the police scanner that is newly-released. listen here. [siren] martha: waiting for that sound. you can see how, look at this scene. >> reporter: we don't have that sound. martha: go ahead, elizabeth. >> reporter: martha, can you hear me? martha: yeah. >> reporter: i want to give you a couple more details. we know about the suspected gunman. neighbors tell us he was expected to be in court today for men's hasing,

which is basically -- menacing. he made threatening comments to his neighbor while his young daughter was present. people have confirmed the homemade bunker he has been working on for weeks behind his home. back to you. martha: it is a frightening situation and in many ways just smacks of some of the situations we've seen under fold in recent weeks. obviously this man is living in an underground bunker and that tells us a lot what is going on with him. we'll learn more. elizabeth, thank you very much. >> reporter: thanks. bill: while that's happening, fox news alert on the first con expressional hearing we have seen on gun violence just getting underway now. that room is packed. you can tell by the ambient noise coming across the microphone now. deeply divided panel sets the stage for a day what will be dramatic testimony inside. among those expected to testify, the nra president, wayne lapierre. the former astronaut mark kelly, the husband of former congresswoman gabby giffords

who was shot in the head with a meet and greet with constituents back in 2011. giffords has just made her way into the room. she was originally not on the schedule. that changed earlier today. as we await all this, our chief congressional correspondent mike emanuel tees us up live on capitol hill. what we have heard though going into this hearing, about what lawmakers are planning and sort of a big picture, mike. what have you heard there? >> reporter: well, bill, it is interesting because the chairman of the committee, patrick leahy is from vermont. while he is interested in taking a look at gun violence, there is undoubtedly a lot of his constituents are strong supporters of the second amendment. so he has a fine line to walk. what we do expect to hear plenty of emotion from both sides of the issue. as you mentioned from the nra. also congresswoman gabby giffords is there. we expect her to make a statement. alongside her husband, astronaut mark kelly. undoubtedly they will be on the other side of the issue.

we got a bit after preview from senate majority leader harry reid. >> senator leahy was very, very expansive and in talking about the hearings he is going to have on gun control. it is very clear that there is going to be a bill brought out of the committee, brought to the senate floor and there will be amendment process there. the people bring up whatever amendments they want that deals with this issue. >> reporter: so harry reid saying it out saying there will be legislation to come out of this committee. the question is what kind of legislation precisely. whether trying to stop gun trafficking. whether it will be background checks. it is not clear how far they think they will go to get something across the finish line, bill. bill: it appeared a week ago, harry reid wasn't quite sure he didn't want to put his senate democrats on the record votings on this, given 20 are up for re-election in the year 2014. it will be interesting to watch that. what are leading republicans saying before this hearing gets underway? >> well, bill we heard from some leading republicans essentially saying, more gun

laws don't necessarily make people safer. look at chicago. tough gun laws there, among the highest murder rates in the country. so they're saying enforcement of existing law would certainly help. here is more from the senate republican leader who is taking a wait-and-see approach. >> it will be up to him to determine whether we see that issue on the floor, up to the judiciary committee to determine whether or not we have hearings and go forward. i'm among those who would be happy to take a look whatever the majority decides to advance on that subject. >> reporter: essentially mcconnell is waiting to see what senator reid brings to the floor and we'll make a determination from there. i should note, a couple of republican senators wanted to bring unloaded weapons in the hearing as props as educational tools. there is too much red tape to make it happen. they requested lindsey graham, ted cruz, future hearings they like to bring weapons in to people can see what they're actually talking about, bill. bill: thank you,

mike emanuel as we wait for the hearing to begin. we get opening statements from senators leahy and grassley and two folks we look forward to hearing from will be wayne lapierre. every time we see gabby giffords in public frankly, we want to know how she is doing physically and mentally. martha: remember when wayne lapierre, the nra didn't have a comment in the early days after what happened at sandy hook elementary school. when he came out he came out in a very forceful way and he said we don't need fewer guns, we need more guns and in the hands of people that would be there to protect children in schools all across the nation. that was met with shock in some corners and support in other corners. really gabby giffords has become the james brady of this current conversation. you know for the second time in my lifetime we're having a serious conversation about gun control, and you know, she is truly the face of that argument. she said i'm a gun owner. mark kelly, said i'm a gun

owner as well. but enough is enough. it is a miracle that gabby giffords survived that hit. we'll hear very strong opinions on both sides of this issue today. bill: we'll hear how much they talk about background checks which has gotten a lot of attention the last couple weeks. also mental health in america. and clearly that is something that mark kelly and gabby giffords have been exposed to directly. you mentioned wayne lapierre, he waited a week or some 10 days before there was any public statement that came from him or the nra. hold tight. we'll bring that to you when there are headlines from the hill. martha: we have a lot of breaking news, folks. stick with us. we want to go to the police in seattle who are getting more than they bargained for when a surface-to-air missile launcher showed up at a gun buyback. the shoulder mounted launcher was built for a stinger missile. already had been fired. you don't see that every day. police first spotted the launcher when they noticed a man at buyback trying to sell it to somebody else. the military is

investigating how it fell into the private hand in the first place. weapons like this are not available to the public through military surplus or disposal programs which comes as a shock. bill: apparently it was already fired. you can't fire it twice. martha: exactly. bill: we're watching this hostage matter in alabama quite closely. there are swat teams on the scene where a armed man is believed to be hiding in an underground bunker holding a 6-year-old child hostage. mark fuhrman in a moment how you deal with this matter. martha: she was just 16 years old when she was thrown into evin prison in iran where now there is an american citizen who is a pastor. he has received an 8-year sentence. it is a memory for this woman as you can imagine that is impossible for her to forget. how did she survive in there where many people do not? bill: bill o'reilly, colin powell, 'nough said. they talk race and were powell still considers himself to be a republican. >> you keep saying they were appealing to their base,

they're speaking to their people. i think they have to speak to a larger group of people for the republican party. >> that is valid point. >> to get back on the right track. >> but you understand the point i'm making though. >> i understand the point you're making. favorite recipes? just begin with america's favorite soups. bring out chicken broccoli alfredo. or best-ever meatloaf. go to campbellskitchen.com for recipes, plus a valuable coupon. campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do.

bill: gabby gifford now speaking, in the senate hearing. >> for democrats and republicans speaking is difficult but i need to say something important. violence is a big problem. too many children are diying. too many children. we must do something. it will be hard but the time is now.

you must act. be bold, be courageous. americans are counting on you. thank you. >> captain kelly, you want to help miss giffords out? give you a few moments. and then --. bill: every time we see her she looks better and better, doesn't she? here is another case.

mark kelly helping her lead out there. gabby giffords was not on the invite list or not on the list of speakers, shall we say at daybreak today but she was added about two hours ago. a short statement about acting now, when it comes to her experience and what she hopes for others in the future. martha: she has become such a passionate advocate for this. as i said before she and mark kelly are both gun owners. they say they believe very strongly there needs to be some action and boy, very moving, just to listen to gabby gifford and she said in her statement, it is hard for her to speak but she felt it was so important that she speak now. so we're really going to hear some very passionate, i expect, on both sides. here is senator leahy of vermont who is speaking right now and we're going to hear from wayne lapierre of the nra too, and his suggestion has been we need an armed guard in every single school across the united states of america. >> now i want everybody here

to join the discussion as part of a collective effort it find solutions, to help insure that no family, no school, no community, ever has to endure such a grievous tragedy again. we have to come together today as americans seeking common cause. i hope we can forego sloga sloganneering and demagoguery and recrimination. it is too important for that. we should all be here as americans, every american abhors the recent tragedies. just the last two years. elementary school in connecticut. movie theater in colorado. a sacred place of worship in wisconsin. in front of a shopping mall in arizona. and americans are looking to us for solutions and for actions. this committee is a focal point for that process. i have introduced a measure to provide law enforcement agencies with stronger tools

against illegal gun trafficking. others have proposed restrictions of military-style weapons, and the size of ammunition clips. others have proposed modifications to the background check system to keep guns out of the wrong hands or not unnecessarily burdening law-abiding citizens. i'm a lifelong vermonter. i know gun store owners in vermont. they follow the law. they conduct background checks to block the conveyance of guns to shows who should not have them. and they wonder why others who sell guns do not have to follow these same protective rules. and you agree with these responsible business owners. if we could all agree that criminals and those adjudicate as mentally ill should not buy firearms, why should we not try to plug the hoop roles -- loopholes

that allow them to buy guns without background checks? that is simple matter of common sense. if we agree the background check system is worthwhile, shouldn't we try to improve its content and use it so it can be more effective. what responsible gun owner objects to improving the background check system? when i bought firearms in vermont i go through the background check. i would expect everybody else to. now at the outset of this hearing i note that the second amendment is secure and will remain secure and protected. in two recent cases the supreme court affirmed the second amendment, like the other aspect of our bill of rights, secures a fundamental individual right. americans have the right to self-defense, as the court has said, to have guns in their homes to protect their familis. no one can take away those

rights or their guns. second amendment rights are the foundation which our discussion rests. they're not at risk. what is at risk are lives. lives are at risk when responsible people fail to stand up for laws that would keep guns out of the hands of those who use them to commit murder, especially mass murders. i ask we focus our discussion on additional statutory measures to better protect our children and all americans. i say this as a parent and as a grandparent. ours is a free society, an open society. we come together today to consider how to become a safer and more secure society. no one begrudges the government assistance provided to victims of mass tragedies made possible by the law we passed after the bombing in oklahoma city.

the bill introduced last week against gun trafficking will similarly prove helpful. i believe it will become an accepted part of our crime control frame work. it too is common sense rerecall to. it fills a hole in our law enforcement arsenal so that straw purchasers who acquire weapons for criminals can be prosecuted more effectively. last thursday the president nominated the u.s. attorney from minnesota. we have two from his state here on this committee. nominated the u.s. attorney to direct the federal bureau of alcohol, tobacco, firearms and explosives. i trust all senators will cooperate in a prompt hearing and action on that nomination. will join good faith to strengthen our law enforcement efforts against gun violence and protect public safety. as a responsible gun owner

and someone who cherishes all of our constitutional rights, as a senator, who has sworn an oath to uphold those rights, as a father and a grandfather, and as a former prosecutor who has seen the results of gun violence first happened in graphic detail, i undertake these efforts with the hope that this hearing can build consensus around common sense solutions. previous measures to close the gun show loophole or to improve the background check system has been bipartisan. and i hope in this new congress, further improvements will also become bipartisan. we can act together as americans. i said what kind of measures i can support. i will ask other senators to come forward and do it as well. i will ask our witnesses what legislative proposals they support to make america safer, and i thank everybody

here for joining in today's discussion. senator grassley. >> mr. chairman and thank you as well for this hearing and thanks to everybody who's here and particularly our witnesses. what happened newtown shocks our nation. we will never forget where we were or how we reacted when we learned that 20 very young children or six adults were killed that day, or if we forgot about that specific instance, you don't forget about all the tragedies that have happened recently. as a grandfather and great-grandfather i can not imagine how anyone would commit an evil act like that. and i can not ever begin to know what it would be like to be a relative of one of those slain children. we pray for the families who continue to mourn the loss of loved once. we pay for, pray for all victims of violence and guns,

buy guns and otherwise. clearly violent crimes and those who commit them are a plague on our society, one that has been with us for far too long. we have looked at these issues before but i welcome this renewed discussion. i think the need for the judiciary committee to hold hearings after newtown is very clear. all over america people were appalled by what happened to those vulnerable and precious victims. and we all want to examine sensible actions could reduce the likelihood of future crimes. and we've extended a special welcome to former congresswoman giffords. she was doing what a conscientious representative should do but i what i hope all of us do, taking the pulse of constituents to represent them in congress. she was representing the people of her congressional

district when a gunman opened fire. the shooting was a horrible tragedy but her determination to overcome her injuries, progress through rehabilitation, and continued contribution to society are an inspiration, or at least should be an inspiration to all of us. i thank her for being here today and with her husband captain kelly. although newtown and tucson are terrible tragedies, the deaths in newtown should not be used to put forward every gun control measure that has been floating around for years because the problem is greater than just guns alone and i think the chairman's speech indicates that as well. any serious discussion of the causes of gun violence must include a complex reexamination of mental health as it relates to mass shootings. society as a whole has changed as well, and that statement is made. it is difficult for me to

measure it. i think you see a lack of civility in american society has grown considerably in the last couple decades. you see it here on the, in the congress as well when we are partisan and don't treat each other with the respect that we ought to. there are too many video games that celebrate the mass killing of innocent people. games that despite attempts at industry self-regulation find their way into the hands of children. an example, one video game released in november of 2009 which has sold over 22 million copies in the u.s. and u.k. was for foreign distribution, because the opening level depicted, shooting innocent civilians in an airport security line. this game was specifically cited in a manifesto of the norway mass shooter as quote, part of my training simulation, end of quote, for carrying out his

attacks. where is the artistic value of shooting innocent victims? i share vice president biden's disbelief of manufacturer denial that these games have no effect on real world violence. above all we should not rush to pass legislation that will not reduce mass killings. banning guns based on their appearance does not make sense. the 1994 assault weapons bandied not stop columbine. the justice department found the ban in effective. scholars have indicated refining or expanding such legislation will not cut gun violence. i also question the limitation on magazine capacities. those can be circumvented by carrying multiple guns as many killers has done. we hear no one needs to carry larger magazines than those that hunters use to shoot deer, attack a crime, unlook a deer, that shoots

back. i do think we may be able to work together to prevent straw purchasers from trafficking in guns. the oversight work that i conducted on illegal "operation fast and furious" shows that there are some gaps in this area of law that should be closed. besides legislative proposals the president recently took 23 executive actions on guns and without knowing exactly how they're worded. we don't, can't find fault with them. and probably should not find fault with a lot of his actions. despite this administration's claim to be the most transparent in history, the text of these actions is still not posted on the white house website. only very brief statements about what they do. but all of those executive he can a shuns actions could have been introduced four years ago after the tucson shooting or after a record can.

why only now? one order directs centers for disease control to research gun violence. contrary to what you heard congress has never prohibited the cdc from researching gun violence. they prevented federal research to advocate or promote gun control which some government researchers have been doing under the guise of taxpayer supported science. had congress prohibited gun violence research the president could not have legally directed the cdc to conduct that research. i was taken aback when the president cited the declaration of independence and the constitution as sources of government power to restrict gun ownership rights. the constitution in fact creates a limited federal government. it separates powers among branches of the federal government. it preserves state power against federal power. the framers believed that these structures would adequately control the government as so to protect individual liberty but the american people disagreed. they feared that the constitution gave the federal government so much

power that it could be tyrannical and violate individual rights. so the bill of rights was added. each of those rights including the second amendment was adopted to further limit government power and protect individual rights. president obama's remarks turned the constitution on its head. he said, quote, the right to worship freely and safely, that right was denied to sikhs and in oak creek, wisconsin. quote the right to assemble peacefully, that right was denied shoppers in clack must, oregon and moviegoers in aurora, colorado. that most fundamental set of rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are fundamental rights that were denied to college students at virginia tech and high school students ad columbine and elementary school students at newtown. end of quote. but this is not so. except for its prohibition hon slavery the constitution limits only actions of government, not individuals. so for instance, the right to peacefully assemble,

protects individual rights to organize, to protest and seek to change government action. that right is trivialized and mischaracterized as protecting shopping and watching movies and those constitutional rights are not the source of governmental power to enact legislation as the president suggested in fact just the opposite. they were included in the bill of rights because throughout history governments have wanted to shut up those who would criticize government, to suppress unpopular religions or to disarm people. the president cited constitutional protections of individual rights as the basis for expanding federal power over the lives of private individuals. this is the same president who exceeded his pewer under the constitution to appoint recess appointments. so no wonder millions of americans fear that the president might take executive action and congress may enact legislation that could lead to tyrannical federal government. so i can not accept the president's claim that quote, there will be politicians

and special interests lobbyists publicly warning of tyrannical all-out assault on liberty, not because that's true but because they want to gin up fear, end of quote. this necessarily and understandably leads many citizens to fear that their individual rights will be violated, and that extend well beyond the second amendment. it should be a matter of deep concern to all of us. the constitution for 225 years has established a government that is a servant of the people, not the master. so, mr. chairman as we consider and debate legislation arising from these tragedies, i hope that we will proceed with proper understanding of the relationship that the constitution establishes between government power and individual liberty and i hope we will pass those bills that would actually be effective in reducing gun violence. i welcome the witnesses and look forward to this hearing. thank you very much. >> thank you. i'd ask captain mark kelly,

professor -- [inaudible] chief james johnson, gail carter, william lapierre step forward to sit behind your chairs for the moment and i swear in the panel one at a time. please raise your right hand. do you solemnly swear the testimony you give in this matter will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god? let the record show all of the witnesses have been sworn in please. take your, take your seats. then what i suggest we do i will call on each witness. we'll try to keep to restrict time and each to give their testimony an we'll open it to questions in the usual way. alternating both side. our first witness is mark

kelly. he is a, first witness is mark kelly. he is a retired astronaut in u.s. navy captain. captain kelly recently cofounded americans for responsible solutions. this is an advocacy group that promotes solutions to prevent gun violence, and protect responsible gun ownership. did it with his wife, former congresswoman gabrielle giffords. so, captain kelly, please go ahead, sir. >> thank you, chairman leahy and ranking member grassley for inviting me here today

. >> we are simply two reasonable

americans who have said, enough. on january 8th of 2011 a young man walked up to gabby at her constituent event in tucson, leveled his gun and shot her through the head. he then turned down the line and continued firing. in 15 seconds he emptied his magazine. it contained 33 bullets and there were 33 wounds. as the shooter attempted to reload he fumbled. a woman grabbed the next magazine, and others restrained him. gabby was the first victim. christina taylor green, nine years old, born on 9-11-2001 was shot with the 13th bullet or after. and others followed. the killer in the tucson shooting suffered from severe mental illness, but even after being deemed unqualified for service in the army, annex pull

son from pima community college he was never reported to mental health authorities. on november 30th of 2010 he walked into a sporting good store, passed a background check and walked out with a semi automatic handgun. he had never been legally adjudicated as mentally ill and even if he had arizona at the time had over 121,000 records of disqualifying mental illness that it had not submitted into the system. looking back we can't say with certainty, only if we had done this. this would have never happened. there isn't just one thing that would have prevent ep pre prevented the tucson shooting from being written into the history books. gabby is one of 100,000 victims of gun violence in america each and every year. behind every victim lays a matrix of failure and inadequacy

in our families, in our communities, in our values, in our society's approach to poverty, violence and mental illness, and yes, also in our politics and in our gun laws. one of our messages is simple, the breath and complexity of gun violence is great, but it is not an excuse for inaction. there is another side to our story. gabby is a gun owner, and i'm a gun owner. we have our firearms for the same reasons that millions of americans just like us have guns, to defend ourselves, to defend our families, for hunting, and for target shooting. we believe wholly and completely in the second amendment and that it confers upon all americans the right to own a firearm for protection, collection and recreation. we take that right very seriously and we would never, ever give it up just like gabby would never relinquish her gun, and i would never relinquish

mine. but rights demand responsibility. and this right does not extend to terrorists, it does not extend to criminals, and it does not extend to the mentally ill. when dangerous people get guns we are all vnerable, at the movies, at church, conducting our every day business, meeting with a government official, and time after time after time, at school, on our campuses, and in our childrens classrooms. when dangerous people get dangerous guns we are all the more vulnerable. dangerous people with weapons specifically designed to inflict maximum lethality upon others have turned every single corner of our society into places of carnage and gross human loss. our rights are paramount but our responsibilities are serious, and as a nation we are not taking responsibility for the

gun rights that our founding fathers have conferred upon us. now we have some ideas on how we can take responsibility. first, fix gun background checks. the holes in our laws make a mockery of the background check system. congress should close the private sales loophole and get dangerous people entered into that system. second, remove the limitations on collecting data and conducting scientific research on gun violence. enact a tough federal gun trafficking statute. this is really important. and finally, let's have a careful and civil conversation about the lethality of firearms we permit to be legally bought and sold in this country. gabby and i are progun ownership. we are also antigun violence. and we believe that in this debate congress should look not

towards special interests and ideology which pushes us apart but towards compromise which brings us together. we believe whether you call yourself progun or antigun violence, or both, that you can work together to pass laws that save lives. thank you. >> thank you. next witness david capo is the research director for the independent institute. martha: that was markle leave. he spoke after his wife, the former congresswoman from arizona, gabrielle giffords also came out and urged this panel to be bold in their action in gun control. he reiterate they'd he and his wife were both gun owners. you could see in the background wayne louisian lapierre to answer questions himself. ef has a verhe has a different take on this. we'll take you back there when

the nra head is getting ready to speak. bill: there is an ongoing hostage matter in southern alabama. a man believed to be holding a six-year-old boy hostage inch seed of an underground shelter. at least 50 vehicles from the fed to the state, local agencies trying to communicate with him and make sure that six-year-old boy gets out okay. a bus driver, meanwhile, has been shot and killed. it's an ongoing matter for the past 14-plus hours. mark fuhrman in a moment on how police end this safely.

bill: back to this breaking news. this is midland city, alabama, southern part of the state. police and swats teams, negotiators they are around this rural property where a man is believed to be hold up inside of an underground shelter holding a six-year-old boy hostage this. broke last evening when a school

bus was stopped and the gunman demanded at least one of the children go with him. when the driver refused the driver was shot to death. mark fuhrman is a former l.a.p.d. homicide detective with us now out of northern idaho. what do you do right now? what is the strategy with the fed and the state and the local authorities surrounding an underground bunker where this man at least has sought shelter. it might even be where he lives, mark. >> good morning, bill. you know, this kind of a situation, you know, they have -- they really don't have time on their side, but during the time that they do have they are going to try to develop as much intelligence of who they are dealing with, and what might have triggered this act at this moment at this time. they are going to try to find out as much as they can about the residence where he is actually barricaded, the location in that residence where he's barricaded himself, making sure there is no exit point that

they don't know about. evacuate the area and try to make contact with the suspect and find out if there is a specific demand, and certainly they want to know his mental state, and just exactly how to communicate with him, and possibly friend or family that might be able to make a connection for the police. bill: you know, mark, you know, you have a dead school bus driver who was absolutely innocent in all of this. and you're wondering about the safety and security of the six-year-old child. how do you talk him out of keeping that boy with him? >> well, bill, you know this is a specialty that very few police officers ever really get involved in. i was not. but let's use some common-sense here. what are his demands? than then you try to talk him down from what is already a catastrophic situation, actually getting worse. in other words, we are not going to kill you, we need you to come out. we need you to give up the child. we need you to do certain things

in good faith and we'll do certain things in good faith. but that is with the understanding that he actually understands those things. we don't know his mental state, we don't know what actually threw him into this act where he actually took a hostage and killed a bus driver, so it's very difficult right now, and it's a tentative situation and you always have to be conscious that he might be watching the media and listening to the media and watching this broadcast right now. bill: we are getting a lot of information from the police down there in alabama. what we understand now from the "associated press" he was expected to appear in court possibly even today on a charge of threatening his own neighbors. if that's the case, people in this area knew about this man. >> bill, it's your typical situation where everybody sees there is a problem and fails to notify thinking somebody else will, or it's no big deal, or

it's an isolated incident. how many times do we see these situations, in fact any situation of violent, whether it's domestic or otherwise where people go backwards and go well, yeah, he was kind of angry, yes he was violent, yeah i had a fight with him, and you see these people that have never talked to each other now collectively talking about one person or incident, and the evidence is there, the clues are there. bill: court record, ap now shows he had been scheduled to appear in court wednesday morning, today, charging menacing neighbors as they drove by his house a month ago. he's said to be in his 60s. neighbors said he yelled and fired shots over damage he claimed their pickup did to a makeshift speed bump in the dirt road. i'm reading this off the "associated press." there are mental issues involved in this too. mark fuhrman thank you. we hope this ends peacefully. martha: we have the on going hostage situation, a man with a gun holding a six-year-old

child, and that is a similar situation in some ways to the event in newtown that brings us to this scene that you see on capitol hill right now. trying to figure out what to do to prevent these kind of things from happening in the future. we are waiting for wayne lapierre of the nra. he will testify moments away. we will take a quick break and bring you right back to the action right after this. eat good fats. avoid bad. don't go over 2000... 1200 calories a day. carbs are bad. carbs are good.

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that's right, 60 days risk-free. use promo code: gethelp. if you're not completely satisfied, notify lifelock and you won't pay a cent. order now and also get this shredder to keep your documents out of the wrong hands-- a $29 dollar value, free. get protected now. call the number on your screen or go to lifelock.com to try lifelock protection risk free for a full 60 days. use promo code: gethelp. plus get this document shredder free-- but only if you act right now. call the number on your screen now! martha: bill o'reilly now confronting general colin powell on his staunch support for president obama despite being a long-time republican. the four-star general served in several pep administrations but voted for president obama twice. he was very critical of the republican party throughout the last campaign making several

comments regarding race in the g.o.p. and bill o'reilly pushed him on that point. here it is. >> see your remarks were taken then and branded on the g.o.p., the republican party, they are a bunch of racists, they don't care about the minorities, and now that is not true. >> i know that is not true but i'm telling you there is this vane of intolerance within the party. when you say, you know, let's selfdeport people. 47%. there are a lot of thing the party has to look in the mirror at and say is this who we want to be. martha: very interesting interview last night on the o'reilly factor. joined by domes combs host of the alan colmes radio show. brad blakeman, former deputy assistant to george w. bush. welcome, gentlemen. brad, let me start with you. these are questions that i think a lot of conservatives have wanted to ask of colin powell point-blank. how do you think it went? >> i don't think colin powell made the case that the republican part tear is intolerant. by the way if it's everything that he says we are, then why

would you still call yourself a republican? and the general has done nothing to change the party from within. did he run for chairman of the party? no. did he run for office? did he join the platform committee? was he even a delegate to the convention? did he attend. no. he voted twice for democrats. the question rhetorically is when does a republican cease being a republican it's when you act like general powell you make accusations with no back up, you taint the party, you call yourself a republican. martha: he says he's a nixon-reagan republican and he feels the party has left him. >> this guy has had a stellar career of being an action oriented person not an armchair general. if he believes the party is as intolerant as it is why hasn't he done anything affirmatively to change it? why sit back and cast a as

aspersions against a party? >> if you want to put down colin polaroid and ignore what he's saying you're going to keep losing elections. ronald reagan who had a pathway to citizenship for people undocumented, who cut and run from lebanon, who had a pro-abortion stance as governor of california. richard nicks con who was a liberal on policy would never get the nomination in today's republican party. all powell is saying we need to be a more moderate party and have a broader tent if we are going to attract more people much. >> he hasn't done anything action oriented. >> i'll answer your question. he is actually a very important figure in the party who is out front urging you to be pwroerd and that -- he's got an important platform to make thab. and that's what he's doing. >> jindal is talking about their believe -- the stupid party is

what bobby jindal called it. he's not alone in some of these thoughts, colin powell. >> our party has things to learn in election cycles and democrats do as well. we will internalize and fix that which is broken in our party. >> what is that, what is broken? martha: answer alan's question, what is broken. >> we haven't reached out enough, just asking somebody to vote for us and expect their vote you have to earn their vote. >> then you agree with powell. >> i don't agree with everything he says. my criticism of the general is you've been an action-oriented person your entire life. your party gave you the opportunity. martha: you want to see him be active in that effort. understood. guys, we are short on time. we're going to go. alan thank you so much. good to see you as always. brad, pleasure. bill: we are watching the hostage matter play out. no word on how it will end for the six-year-old child.

still active. an update from the police in the next hour here on fox. for your first day? yeah. ♪ dad: you'll be fine, ok? girl: ok. dad: you look so pretty. ♪ i'm overprotective. that's why i got a subaru. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru.

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